Faith In The Ballot Box: Christians In Politics With Gary Bauer

Running Into the Fire | Gary Bauer | Christian Politics

Running Into the Fire | Gary Bauer | Christian Politics


Every silence becomes louder when freedoms are at stake. As Christians, our voices must stand for truth, for liberty, and for the divine right to worship freely. In this episode, Gary Bauer, a fervent advocate for religious freedom and conservative values. He explores the intersection of faith and politics, passionately sharing his disappointment and urgent call to action. His striking analogy paints a vivid picture: we’ve been blessed with a gift—our nation—and neglecting our civic duties is akin to squandering a divine blessing. Tune in now and ignite your passion for defending liberty.

Listen to the podcast here


Faith In The Ballot Box: Christians In Politics With Gary Bauer

I’m honored to be joined by our guest, Gary Bauer. Gary was born in Covington, Kentucky, and served in President Ronald Reagan’s administration for eight years as Undersecretary of Education and Chief Domestic Policy Advisor. After leaving the Reagan White House, he became the President of the Family Research Council and the Senior Vice President of Focus on the Family. He ran for president in the 2000 Republican Party presidential primaries and participated in five national debates.

Gary served as a Trump appointee to the US Commission on International Religious Freedom, and now he serves as President of American Values, an educational nonprofit public policy organization. He is chairman of the Campaign for Working Families PAC, which is dedicated to electing conservative candidates to Congress. Gary also serves as Senior Vice President of Public Policy for the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute. Gary, thank you so much for being with us.

It’s my pleasure. It’s great to be with you.

I’m going to jump right in here. We talk a lot about faith and politics on this show. According to a study conducted by the Christian Broadcasting Network, as many as 40 million Christians fail to vote in presidential election cycles, and 15 million are not even registered to vote at all. I’m curious. What are your thoughts on that study?

My first thought was where did I leave my high blood pressure medication? When I hear that, and I have heard those statistics, it’s infuriating and depressing quite frankly. I’ve tried to figure out a way to give Christians who are involved in the process some rationale to rethink their decision not to be involved. One of the things I’ve been talking about is this. Did any of us think that it was a surprise to God when we were born in America? Of course, it wasn’t. God knows where we’re going to be born. We’re born in the place we’re born because God directed that to happen. When we were born here or had a chance to legally immigrate here, we received the greatest blessing that somebody could possibly receive.

If somebody gives you an unbelievable gift, and you don’t take care of it or if you don’t husband it and make sure that it doesn’t get harmed or damaged, you’re an ingrate. I don’t want to be nasty about this, but to my brothers and sisters in Christ, to have this great blessing of being born here and then not do the fundamental things that all of us should do like voting and being part of the debate, you’re being an ingrate to the blessing that God gave you. We’re betraying all the previous generations that came before us and dooming our children and grandchildren to lesser lives. I hope something happens soon to wake up people. It’s important to be in church on Sunday. You need to be in the voting booth on Tuesday.


It’s important to be in church on Sunday, but you need to be in the voting booths on Tuesday.


That’s a great quote. I love that. Let’s talk a little bit about 2024. We have the presidential election coming up. I know people are focused heavily on that right after the holidays. Especially people are going to be thinking about it. What do they need to be doing to prepare? What should they be doing to get ready for what’s coming up?

The obvious answers are things like finding some reliable sources of information like your show and becoming an informed citizen. Let me take a second to suggest something a little bigger. What I said is very important but to begin with, I’m not a prophet. The next twelve months are going to be a rollercoaster ride. Twelve months from now, the country is either going to be dramatically worse than it is now or on the way to becoming dramatically better than it is now.

We’re going to see headlines that are almost unimaginable. We already saw one with that terrible event in Israel on October 7th. It’s a shocking event. Look at all the things that have happened as a result of that one event in the Middle East. Think of the different things that are likely to happen in America over the next year that will probably impact greatly what happens in November 2024.

To prepare ourselves for this ride that’s ahead of us, we need to become stronger, and I don’t mean going to the gym. That’s a good thing too but we need to become stronger from a faith standpoint. We need to strengthen our hearts and souls. We need to have a better relationship with our God. We need to strengthen our families. Another thing that is important leading up to November ’24 is that we have to embrace the truth. We always have to tell the truth.

Men and women of faith are being told to lie regularly. We’re being told that we should call a man a woman or a woman a man. We’re supposed to look the other way when our liberties are being eroded, or we need to buy into all kinds of untruths. We can’t do that. Every time we lie, we become weaker. I would urge all of your audiences to make a resolution now to spend 2024 telling the truth because every time we tell the truth, we will become stronger men and women. It increases the chances that twelve months from now, America will be in a better place.

When you look at the numbers, we spent over $16 billion on this election cycle for 2022. It was the most expensive cycle on record. In every election, the cost of running for office keeps getting higher. We created a new growth industry in an area where there shouldn’t be one. The price that we’re going to pay for that is we’re sacrificing our democracy in some ways. I’m curious. Being a former presidential candidate, what are your thoughts about political spending? What do you think we need to do to get a handle on what seems to be almost a runaway train?

It’s a tough question because, on the one hand, it’s tough to limit campaign spending. All kinds of free speech rights come into play and so forth. On a very personal basis, I sure know the point you’re making, however. My campaign in 2000 was a long-shot quixotic campaign. I was trying to make some points that I thought needed to be made, and I believe I paid off my last campaign debt a few years ago. It’s not for somebody who can’t raise money. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes people who already are independently wealthy and can spend a lot of their money on their campaigns.

I don’t have a good answer to this. I do believe that if an organization is involved in campaigning and is trying to influence the election, the disclosure laws ought to be a lot stronger. One of the things we know is happening is that money is being spent. Nobody ever figures out where that money came from, and that is a problem because it could mean that even foreign interests are spending money to influence our elections in ways that would be disturbing to the American people.

I couldn’t agree with you more. As a candidate for Congress myself in Alabama in 2020, I learned very quickly that the only way that you can counterbalance some of the special interest money that is pouring in usually to these types of races is if more people who are average individuals get involved and give money. I wrote a book called Running Into the Fire, which is about why more Christians need to be involved in politics but I almost named it Less Than 1%, and the reason for that is because that’s the percentage of Americans who gave to political campaigns in the 2016 election cycle.

Less than 1% of the population is putting skin in the game and helping raise money or give money to the campaigns that many times are by people like you or me who are trying to get elected, do it the right way, and be honest. It makes it almost impossible. If that ratio could be changed even a little bit so that more people would start giving even a $25 gift to a candidate who has been well-vetted and is honest, that could make a huge difference.

It has always been frustrating, and it has been this way for a long time, that the left seems to have a lot more billionaires at their disposal than we do. Here’s a note to the Republican Party in Congress. Maybe we shouldn’t be fighting so hard not to raise taxes on billionaires since most of them are liberal Democrats. We tended to do better at the grassroots level with the small donors but now we’re losing there too. There are a number of left-wing groups out there that raise incredible amounts of money in $25 contributions. We have to be willing to do the same.

I say that knowing that, ironically, because of Bidenomics, American families are under tremendous economic pressure. Putting food on the table now costs a lot more than it used to. The very people who are being hurt the most by some of these policies may not have $25 to donate to political candidates who would do something to reverse those policies. It’s a vicious circle.

I would urge people. You should give it to your church first. Give to crisis pregnancy centers. There are a lot of important things to give money to but I would hope that particularly people of faith or Christians would begin to think of political donations if you’ve done your research. In its own way, it’s a form of tithing. If you can elect more people like yourself who are pro-life and pro-family, that’s something that would please God. You can look at it as a gift that will also be helpful to the larger cause of Christ.


You should give to your church first.


I was talking with a political consultant friend of mine and he said this about the liberal left. They think of politics as their religion, and they tithe to it on a regular basis.

There’s no question about it. Some of the specific issues on the left are now seen as almost a religion. The whole climate change thing is dealt with in a way that sometimes religions deal with descent. If somebody questions whether the Earth is going to be on fire in a couple of years, you’re a heretic. You will get thrown out of the church of climate change. It is true that the left sees a lot of these causes as almost their religion.

We’re facing a time where if we don’t speak up, we risk losing everything. In Eric Metaxas’ book Letter to the American Church, he talks about how we are caught up in what the German political scientist Elisabeth Noelle-Neumann dubbed as the spiral of silence. That’s a phenomenon that occurs when people see a culture transitioning toward tyranny but they refuse to speak up. The longer they hesitate, the more the price of speaking rises. As that price then rises, fewer people choose to speak, and then the price rises again and so on until the entire nation can be silenced. He believes that is what is happening in America. I’m curious. What is your opinion about the cancel culture that seems to be taking hold in America more each day?

I was with Eric at the James Dobson Family Institute in Colorado Springs. We both spoke at Dr. Dobson’s annual event where he brings some of his best supporters together. Eric touched on that subject very effectively in the articulate way that he could at the conference. It’s exactly right. There’s a lot of fear among the American people. They don’t want to lose their jobs.

I heard a story about a university student who sent his research paper he was doing for a particular class to his father and said, “Dad, could you take a look at this? I want to make sure I have a great sentence structure and so forth.” His father read it, went back to him, and said, “Son, the writing is great but since when did you start believing these things that are in your paper?” His son said to him, “I don’t believe them but I need an A in this course, and the only way I can get it is by writing what the professor wants me to say.” That is beyond sad. That thing should never be happening in America.

The idea that hardworking families would save their money and send their kids to some college, and the kid has to lie at the college to get a decent grade is disgusting but that is happening more. The cancel culture 99 times out of 100 goes after conservatives, Christians, and people who are pro-life. The best antidote to it is we have to redouble our efforts collectively to speak the truth no matter what the consequences are. If we don’t, we will wake up one morning, and we won’t have the freedom of speech anymore. This is a time for courage. There are things elected officials can do.

All these universities where the cancel culture is the strongest get massive amounts of tax money at both the state level and the federal level. State legislatures need to stand up. Congress needs to stand up, and we need to tell these universities, “If freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are disappearing on your campus when it’s conservative views, we’re going to hold you accountable.”

It seems like our country is closer to socialism than ever. Socialism is about replacing God with government and freedom with tyranny. Those who do not embrace socialism are canceled. Socialism at its core is going to believe that Christianity is a threat. My question to you is this. As somebody who served on the International Religious Freedom Commission, how concerned are you about our religious freedom being in jeopardy right here in the United States? What do you want our audiences to know about why it’s so important for them to make a difference?

In some ways, there are a couple of contradictory things in this whole subject. Let me point them out. On the one hand, ironically, our right to religious liberty is in a stronger position than it has been in 4 or 5 decades at the Supreme Court. The reason is that Donald Trump was elected and had an incredible opportunity in four years to appoint three Supreme Court justices. Those justices now are part of a fairly solid 5 to 6-vote majority on the court protecting religious liberty.

On the other hand, in institutions like universities, public schools, and public squares, the attack on religious liberty continues unabated, and many people of faith bow down. When their religious liberty is threatened, they back off and say, “I’ll change what I said. I won’t recommend that book in my classroom.” If you don’t use a muscle, it atrophies, and you end up being weaker. It’s the same with our liberties. There’s no excuse not to use those liberties because we do have a sympathetic Supreme Court.

I agree with you completely that the freedom of religion, the freedom of assembly, the freedom of speech, and all those things are under attack. It’s important that as Christians we step up, utilize those rights, and know that at the end of the day, if worse comes to worse and there’s a lawsuit, we do have a better situation in our courts than we have had in the recent past.

Running Into the Fire | Gary Bauer | Christian Politics
Christian Politics: All these things, the freedom of religion, the freedom of assembly, the freedom of speech, all those things are under attack and it’s important that as Christians we step up and utilize those rights.


The thing you said in setting up that question, you’re right on target. To socialists, the government is God. They vehemently reject the idea that is in the second paragraph of our Declaration of Independence where it says, “We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal endowed by their government.” It doesn’t say that. That would mean America was like every other country.

The idea is that our rights came from the government. It says it’s endowed by our creator. That’s the God of the Bible. That’s the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jesus. As Americans, we need to promote that idea and resist the growth of Big Government of socialism that wants to replace God and convince young Americans that the only way they have rights is from government bureaucrats, not from their creator.

You said it so perfectly. One reason why a lot of people get turned off by politics is because of the lack of quality candidates. It’s important to get more good people to run for office yet so often, pastors are trained in seminary school to stay away from politics altogether. When I was considering getting involved in politics as a youngster, I had a lot of people from my Bible study say, “Don’t do that. Why would you want to get involved in politics? It’s so dirty and corrupt.”

It’s great to be so discouraged by your fellow Christians. I have no idea why that happens.

There’s corruption and things that are unsavory in every profession. The mountain of government is something that someone can be called to yet a lot of people in the faith community many times don’t think of that as something that Christians should be more involved in. That’s part of what we talk about here on this show. How do you help someone if they feel like they’re called to serve in politics or be in the government? What can you do to help guide them to get more involved?

First of all, the point you’re making is key. If somebody in our Bible study, somebody that goes to church with us or we interact with in some other way, or somebody in our family said to us, “I’m interested in medicine. Maybe I’ll figure out a way to go back to school. I intend to go to school when I get out of high school,” we would encourage that because you’re saving people. It’s a very noble profession to be in, and so is being involved in the government or elected office because it’s a chance to mold our laws and make sure that our laws are consistent with the beliefs we have as Christians, whether it’s the sanctity of life, what the definition of marriage is or religious liberty, and all these other things that we care about.

You said this in the same way but let me repeat it. Pastors will say, “I’m not interested in the government.” Every time I hear that, I remind them that the government is interested in them. You can’t say, “I’m not going to do anything with the government.” I know that some pastors have convinced themselves, “If I stay in my church, not upset the apple cart, and not do anything that irritates anybody, I’ll be fine. My congregation will be fine.” I hate to tell them this but it won’t because the very thing you’re preaching ultimately is an affront to radical godless socialism. You can have no interest in the government but the government will come to find you.

That’s already happening in Christian schools and other places around the country. The only antidote to that is to make sure that as many men and women of faith and as many men and women who are Christians as possible get elected at every level of the government beginning at your local school board. We have seen that play out in the last couple of years. What happens when there are Christians on the local school board, and you end up finding out that your fourth grader is being taught material about human sexuality by other adults who have a completely different worldview than the worldview you’ve tried to raise your children with? It’s impossible for those of us who are followers of Jesus Christ to be involved in every aspect of American life, including the government.

Running Into the Fire | Gary Bauer | Christian Politics
Christian Politics: The only antidote to that is to make sure that as many men and women of faith as possible get elected at every level of government.


As we wrap up here, what is one final thing that you would like to say to our audiences or one last thought that you would like to leave them with?

I was on the US Commission on International Religious Freedom. Every week, I was reminded of what life is like for Christians in much of the world. We’re going to church, and our biggest complaint is it’s hard to find a place in the parking lot. Christians in Africa, the Middle East, and some parts of Asia will leave very modest homes and walk with their family to little churches knowing that when they walk into those churches, it may be the last thing they do on this Earth with their family because all over the world, every Sunday, churches are bombed. Christians are mowed down by radical Islamists as they leave the church.

As Christians, we not only should pray for our fellow believers but we ought to do a reality check. None of the rights we have can be taken for granted and the first right, which is the right to seek God and worship him as your heart and soul leads you. That’s a precious right. All of us ought to rededicate ourselves to protecting that right and teaching our children and grandchildren how precious it is to be able to seek and worship God.


We ought to do a reality check. None of the rights we have can be taken for granted.


A lot of people come to me and say, “What can I do? I’m just one person.” If you look at the breakdown here in the United States, it can be overwhelming to think about trying to make a difference on a national level but I can make a difference in my county. There are a little over 3,000 counties here in the US, and that’s a more manageable number. If people would start going local and thinking, “What can I do to make a difference with even voter registration?” it’s huge.

There are roughly 168 million Americans who are registered to vote according to the US Census Bureau. In the 31 states that allow for registration with partisan designation, we know that there are 49 million Democrats who are registered to vote and 36 million Republicans registered to vote, and then there’s a lot of independence. If more Christians would get involved with registering others to vote, that could be a huge thing to move the needle in an election.

In the last presidential election, the media said, “It was a landslide.” The fact of the matter was that if a total of 40,000 people had voted differently in Wisconsin, Georgia, Arizona, and Nevada, the election would have been completely different, and the consequences for men and women of faith would have been dramatic. The other thing to remember is that we have been given some examples in the last year of people who don’t sit around and complain but end up taking action.

You have this young lady who was a swimmer at the University of Kentucky, Riley Gaines, who was getting ready to do something else with her life and decided, “I have to take on the transgender movement.” She has been unbelievable, one single young college Christian woman. Kirk Cameron, the former child movie star, decided to start the movement See You at the Library. Instead of being upset at drag queens reading at the library, which he was upset about, he’s urged people to get together themselves to go to their local library and say, “We would like to use the library this coming Saturday to have our reading hour.” Many people are doing that around the country.

We’re seeing examples of what can be done, and it’s not that hard. The left takes advantage of every opportunity they have. Followers of Jesus Christ should do the same. There is not a problem facing America, whether it’s racial reconciliation, restoring American families, or making our streets safer. Nothing you can name is going to be solved unless there is the active involvement of Christian men and women.

Running Into the Fire | Gary Bauer | Christian Politics
Christian Politics: Nothing you can name is going to be solved unless there is the active involvement of Christian men and women.


Where can our audiences find you if they want to learn more about what you’re doing?

Thanks for asking. They can go to

Thank you again so much for being on the show, Gary. Thanks to our audiences for tuning in.

It’s my pleasure to be with you. Thank you for running for office. I hope you do it again.

Thank you so much. You too.


Important Links

Faith, Freedom, Fight: How Christians Can Shape America’s Future With Dr. Alveda King

RIF Dr. Alveda King | Faith

RIF Dr. Alveda King | Faith


Faith, leadership, and unwavering action – the intersection where Christians shape the future of America, one vote, one voice, and one heart at a time. In this episode, host Terri Hasdorff sits down with Dr. Alveda King, a renowned author, Christian evangelist, and esteemed civil rights advocate. As the chair of the America First Policy Institute’s Center for the American Dream, Dr. King brings her unique perspective and insights to the intersection of faith and politics, offering a compelling look at the role Christians play in shaping the future of America. In the age of cancel culture and the rise of socialist ideologies, Dr. King reminds us that leadership is not limited to a chosen few; instead, it resides within all of us. Through servant leadership and unity, she argues, individuals can make a profound impact on their communities and beyond. She also delves into the growing threat to religious freedom and traditional values in today’s society. Dr. King boldly addresses the dangers of critical race theory and the deceptive allure of socialism, reminding us that it is essential to stand firm in our beliefs and push back against ideologies that aim to replace God with the government. Tune in now and together, let’s embrace our calling as servant leaders and work together towards a brighter future for all.


Listen to the podcast here


Faith, Freedom, Fight: How Christians Can Shape America’s Future With Dr. Alveda King

In this episode, I’m honored to be joined by our guest, Dr. Alveda King. Dr. King serves as the chair of the America First Policy Institute’s Center for the American Dream. She is the daughter of the late slain civil rights activist, Reverend A. D. King, and the niece of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., as well as a Christian evangelist, a graduate of Aidan University, and the Founder of Speak for Life and Alveda King Ministries.

Dr. King is also an acclaimed author, Fox News channel contributor, Fox Nation host, Newsmax blog contributor, twice elected to Georgia State House, past Presidential Appointee, 2021 recipient of the Presidential Lifetime Achievement Award, and is a film and music industry veteran. Dr. King, thank you so much for being on the show with us.

Terri, thank you so much for inviting me.

Dr. King, approximately 64% of Americans identify as Christians yet according to a study, 90 million Christians in America are eligible to vote but as many as 40 million fail to vote in presidential election cycles. Fifteen million Christians are not even registered to vote at all. I’m curious. This is a show where we talk about the intersection of faith and politics. What are your thoughts on this study?

That study is probably very accurate. Back in the 1970s, I ran for office. There were five of us in the race. I was the least favorite. City Hall has elected someone. The rich folks uptown had elected someone. Also, the community of activists. Here I am in this race. I ran for office and was told by my mentors and advisors to knock on as many doors as possible during the summer. I knocked on over 700 doors. I told each person who answered the door, “Please vote for me. Would you contribute to my campaign, $1?”

You’ve got to remember this was in the 1970s so that was maybe $10 a day or more. I won that race without a runoff by 2,000 votes, which made me a state representative of the 28th House District in Georgia. That means that there weren’t as many people as I thought registered to vote. For those who turned out, it was amazing. More people do not vote than people vote. That’s something that is shocking but it’s true.


If we remember the grace and mercy of God and how much we’ve been forgiven, then it’ll be easier to forgive others.


In times when the Christians have weighed in and the Christian community has come out and voted, we ended up with a president like President Trump, for example. Our votes do count and matter. I’m taking a long time to explain this but my grandchildren are with me during the summer. Their world is so different from mine. I was asking my granddaughter to read some texts to me. She got to a word and said, “That’s an unfamiliar word. What is it?” Her mother looked and said, “That’s Judeo. Judeo-Christian.”

That’s in my house and my granddaughter stumbled over Judeo-Christian. Her daughter said, “What’s that?” She says, “The Jews in the Old Testament came together with Jesus. The Jews, Gentiles, New Testament, and a community came forth called Judeo-Christian.” She says, “I heard you all talking about that, maybe.” I’ve been praying, “Sometimes, I’ve been disheartened, Lord, by the things they saw on TV and the things they’re doing everywhere.” What God said was, “Don’t give up hope. I’m still here.” I don’t know if you know that I’m a Christian entertainer producing film and music. Sometimes, I sing, act, and all of that.

We are doing a new song called Grown Folks’ Business. Grown Folks’ Business is to work with your hands and be about God’s business and protect the children. We just did another one called Nia, which means purpose in Welsh and Swahili. What I want to encourage folks to do is people need to vote. It does matter. Teach your children well. Don’t give up. We assume that artificial intelligence has taken them over but the Bible still says, “Train up a child in the way that he should go.” Don’t give up. Get out and vote.


People need to vote. It does actually matter.


Plato once said, “The punishment, which the wise suffer who refuse to take part in the government, is to live under the government of worse men.”

I read that. That’s right. If we don’t do something about it, what right do we have to complain?

Dr. King, the importance of political engagement, especially in our history, is so critical. Yet so many people feel like, “I’m just one person. What can I do?” If there’s anyone in history who has changed the course of American history in many ways, it was the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. As his niece, I wondered if you could talk with us a little bit about why it’s so important to be engaged politically, and even if you’re just one person, how you can follow that example.

I have a book that I’ve written, and I’ve written several, but this one is called King Rules. In that book, it says, “If MLK could tweet.” I took many of his quotes and reduced them to 140 characters or less at the end of the book. I’m saying this for you, young readers. When I hear my uncle’s words that say, “We may have come over on different ships but we are all in the same boat now,” it was like, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” He said, “The Negro cannot win if he’s willing to sacrifice the futures of his children for immediate personal comfort and safety.”

RIF Dr. Alveda King | Faith
King Rules: Ten Truths For You, Your Family, And Our Nation To Prosper


People always ask me what would he say if he were here. I said, “What would Jesus say if he was standing right in front of us? All we had to do is pick up the Bible and we would know exactly what Jesus would say.” What would Abraham Lincoln say? We would go back to the Gettysburg Address or all of his other speeches, you see. What would the founding father say? We have the Constitution.

We have to read the words that linger and are still here. Words that are rooted in the Judeo-Christian faith don’t die. I say Judeo-Christian but I don’t know if people know that there are many Muslims who have accepted Christ, are coming to Christ, and are being persecuted and killed all over the world. I don’t know if people understand that as well. Words that come from God last. They don’t go away.

We’re facing a time where if we don’t speak up, we risk losing everything. In his book, Letter to the American Church, Eric Metaxas talks about how we risk being caught up in what German political scientist, Elisabeth Noelle-Neumann, dubbed The Spiral of Silence, which is a phenomenon that occurs when people see a culture transitioning towards tyranny but they refuse to speak up.

The longer people hesitate, the more the price of speaking rises. As the price rises, fewer people choose to speak, the price of speaking rises again, and so on until a nation is silenced. Eric contrasts what happened in Germany under the Nazi regime to what is happening in many ways in America. I’m curious. What is your opinion about that and the cancel culture that seems to be taking hold in America more and more each day?

I was talking to my grandchildren about the cancel culture. My friend, Ryan Bomberger, for example, he and his wife Bethany wrote a book called She is She. I was featured in the book at a podium making a speech. I was one of the characters in the book. The book came in the mail. In the summer, my grandkids will help me open up packages. They’re like, “You can’t open or read this. They will cancel you.” I said, “I’m already canceled but I’m still talking. I’m still here. We are going to open the book.” We were rearranging books and we put that book right in the front of the bookshelf.

RIF Dr. Alveda King | Faith
She is She

I’m explaining all of that to say regardless of what goes on and whether it appears as though we might be canceled or not able to any longer have the voice in a convenient way. There was a lady named Alice Bailey who established what was called the Modern Day New World Order. She did a ten-point charter. If we have time, I’d like to share some of that.

We came up with a strategy like Madalyn O’Hair in ‘63 to pray out of school. In ’73, we had abortion. This lady was pre-cursing that these are real facts. Her name was Alice Bailey and it was in a New World Order system. Take God, pray out of the education system, reduce parental authority over children, and destroy the Judeo-Christian family structure or the traditional Christian family structure. If sex is free, then make abortion legal and make it easy.

Make divorce easy and legal. Free people from the concept of marriage for life. Make homosexuality and alternative lifestyle. Debate art and make it run mad. Use media to promote and change mindsets. Create an interfaith movement. Get governments to make all these laws and inter-laws. Get the church to endorse the changes. All of that has happened but what they did not figure out is that everybody’s not going to agree with that.

They don’t know that an Alveda King will give her phone to her granddaughter and say while out in my little garden on a Sunday, “Take this phone and record this quick.” I had planted some new deal plants. There was a caterpillar on the plant. My hobby is gardening. I posted that. I said, “Put it on TikTok.” A lot of Christians will say, “TikTok is so evil. Don’t do TikTok.” I said, “No, overcome evil with good.” I’m going to put the word of God on every platform, generation, decade, and platform that I have. I involve the young people in assisting me to put out positive messages.

In the 2020 elections, there were dozens of candidates that were endorsed by the Democratic Socialists of America. They won a lot of seats across the United States from City Council to Congress. Membership in the DSA has been growing. According to a poll that was done a couple of years ago, about 70% of millennials say they would vote for a socialist.

I talk a lot about this in my book, Running Into the Fire, that socialism at its core is about replacing God with government and freedom with tyranny. We can’t let that happen here. Dr. King, I’m curious. How concerned are you about our religious freedom in particular being in jeopardy? What knowledge do you want our readers to have about why it’s so important to push back, especially against socialism in the country?

RIF Dr. Alveda King | Faith
Running Into the Fire

We must push back against socialism. I made a point on my platforms about critical race theory. There was a big argument and the Republicans are racist White people. They don’t want equality or equity for Black people. I said, “That’s ridiculous. Critical race theory is based on a premise that came from a group of socialists who believe that there’s an elite race of people when there’s only 1 blood and 1 race. They have worked very hard to eradicate anybody else except their superior growth group. CRT is racist.”

Dr. Chris Leader who works with me had that meme created. He was like, “What do you mean it’s racist?” The more we explain it, you notice that the CRT backed up and tried to walk back somewhat. Everybody will believe whatever is out there until they hear the truth. If a lie is being told and the truth is not brought forth, people will believe a lie.

We have an obligation. Your book is marvelous. It’s a classic so it’s an old music video. Alveda King Latter Rain. It says, “Running through the fire, through the hurting pain, joy of my desire. You cleanse me with your rank.” We have to have your book, the other books, studies, inventions, and everything that we all do. When we all do our parts, we make a difference in our generation, decade, and platforms.

You have been such a leader in so many ways. Dr. Martin Luther King was such a leader. Can you share with us what are your principles you’ve observed in leadership that you encourage others to go by? Are there any books or other things that you would point people to when they’re trying to think about leadership?

From Aidan University, I received a degree in Leadership and Applied Theology. More of us are leaders than we realize. Everyone first is a leader, at least in your life hopefully but under the hand of God, you’re leading yourself. Also, in your communities, jobs, churches, families, or wherever you are. The characteristics of a leader, the Bible says, “If you want to be great in God’s kingdom, you must be a servant of all.” Jesus Christ taught us as servant leaders.

We must begin to care more about God and humanity than ourselves. We need to care about ourselves too because we don’t want low self-esteem. That’s never helpful but we want to care and act accordingly if we can all do our part as leaders. If you go to or, you can see some of my music videos and books. I have quite a few books myself. I read other books. I listen to other music. I’m always expanding this knowledge base.

I’m referring so much to my grandchildren because I’ve got one that’s going into the second grade and she’s being tutored by her uncle and some of the older grandchildren. I’m learning. They said, “You didn’t learn it? Didn’t you know that or this?” We were doing some math. I said, “I did but I didn’t learn it that way.” Even though I’m old, I still try to be teachable. Even though I teach, I’m also ready to learn.

You’re a lifelong learner like me and I love that. I love your quote about how more of us are leaders than we realize. You’re right. We have influence. Sometimes, we don’t use that as effectively as we could, do we?

We do not. One of my favorite quotes, and I didn’t hear anybody say it before I did, was, “When peripherals collide, convergence is imminent. Your main task may not be my main task and vice versa. Since we are working together and moving ahead together, when we put our goals and purposes together, especially in Christ, then we are assured of success and victory.”

Dr. King, as we wrap up, what is one final thing you would like to say to our readers or one last thought that you would like to leave them with?

As I consider where we are in our lives, in the year 2023, it was a long hot summer. I believe that as we seek Him first, the kingdom of God and His righteousness, everything that we need and desire can and will be added unto us. I firmly believe that. Every day, I wake up. Every night, I go to sleep. Every morning, when I wake up, I’m believing that. I often say, “Good morning, God. Yes.” That’s it and the day begins.

Where can our readers find you if they want to learn more about what you’re doing or get a copy of your book?

Please visit me at and

Thank you again so much for being on the show, Dr. King. Thanks to our readers for reading. We’ll have more episodes coming for you soon. Take care.

Thank you. God bless.


Important Links


Interview With Alex McFarland

RIF 3 | Christian Politics

RIF 3 | Christian Politics


Christians cannot afford to be passive spectators in the political arena. With our voices and our votes, we must stand up for biblical truth and defend our nation before it’s too late. In this episode, renowned Christian apologist and author, Alex McFarland, discusses the importance of getting Christians involved in politics. He delves into the history and current state of American politics. He explores the role that Christians can play in shaping the future of our nation. He delves into socialism’s ascent, the importance of biblically responsible political participation by young people, and pastors’ responsibility to urge their flocks to engage politically. Tune in and gain a fresh perspective on the intersection of faith and politics.

Listen to the podcast here


Interview With Alex McFarland

In this episode, I’m honored to be joined by Alex McFarland. Alex is a Christian apologist, author, evangelist, religion and culture analyst, and advocate for biblical truth. He has preached in over 2,200 churches throughout North America and numerous more internationally. He is the Leader of Alex McFarland Ministries and a noted youth culture and religion expert. He’s also the Creator of Viral Truth Clubs and has co-authored more than twenty books including The Assault on America: How to Defend Our Nation Before It’s Too Late! and co-author of 100 Bible Questions and Answers: Inspiring Truths, Historical Facts, Practical Insights.

RIF 3 | Christian Politics
The Assault on America: How to Defend Our Nation Before It’s Too Late

He directs biblical worldview and teaches in the School of Practical Government for Charis Bible College located in Woodland Park, Colorado. McFarlan co-hosts Exploring the Word on the American Family Radio Network, airing daily on nearly 200 radio stations across the United States. He’s also the host of The Alex McFarland Show, which airs weekly on NRV TV. Alex, thank you so much for being on the show.

Thank you, Terri. It’s a great honor. I appreciate all that you do for God and your country and it’s an honor to speak with you.

I’m going to jump right in. Approximately 64% of Americans identify as Christians and yet, according to a study conducted by the Christian Broadcasting Network in 2022, as many as 40 million failed to vote in presidential election cycles and 15 million Christians are not even registered to vote. Alex, what are your thoughts on this recent study?

My thoughts in light of statistics like that are one of grief because Christians not only have a call and a stewardship obligation to be self-enlightened in the culture. We have or at least we have had the numbers that had churches been engaged and Christians be informed and vote. As many say, “Vote Godly,” we’ve abdicated our role and our responsibility. We’re seeing what America looks like when the church has retreated from the public square.

That’s why I’m so excited about what God is doing through your life. You’re calling people to do what the Lord expects us to do, which is to be salt and light in our culture. For far too many American evangelicals, Christians, Protestants, Catholics, what have you. We’re not doing what we could and should do, which is to keep our nation on the path of righteousness.

Why do you think Christians are needed now more than ever in politics?

Christians are needed now more than ever in politics because of not only the specifics of a biblical worldview but because Christians have the basic moral code that our nation was built on and made our nation great, truth, a work ethic, not the attitude that the government owes me anything but life is a sacred gift and I am to get up every morning, go to work, and contribute something.

RIF 3 | Christian Politics
Christian Politics: Christians are needed now more than ever in politics. Christians not only hold a biblical worldview, but they also possess the fundamental moral code on which our nation was built and that made it great.


Generally, Christians are not lazy, except for senior pastors. They often are. By the way, I can talk smack on senior pastors a little bit. I’ve pastored two churches. I’ve spoken in 2,200 churches and I’ve debated literally hundreds of pastors that don’t speak about political issues but generally, Christians have a good work ethic and we are to be leaders. We have the raw materials of godly leadership but sadly, we stay sequestered within four walls of the church so very often that our voice and our influence that could make a wonderful difference is not heard.

According to a 2019 YouGov poll, 70% of Millennials said that they would vote for a socialist. Let’s talk about the rise of socialism in America. Why do you believe socialism is dangerous for America? Why should Christians in particular be concerned?

Terri, what a great conversation and the mere asking of the questions that you have, show your insights and I commend you. What we’re seeing, honestly, to adequately understand it, we have to understand some social trends and spiritual trends, frankly. Social and spiritual trends have been coalescing for a number of decades. We’ve seen since 1970, the breakdown of the family, no-fault divorce. California and New York were the first two states to implement this.

There are 4 to 5 generations into an America where the majority of kids have not grown up under the same roof with their mom and dad. To compensate for this, there were what we call participation trophies. I am a child of the 1970s. I remember this coming along by the late 1970s. I’m old enough to remember when the very first little league games, there was no winner and there was no loser.

You played 7 or 8 innings and everybody shook hands. The whole idea is that everybody gets a trophy merely for showing up. If nobody loses, that means nobody wins. I remember in the 1980s, there were cap and gown graduations from kindergarten. Kids are at the point now that, “You are special. You deserve accolades. Kudos for waking up in the morning.”

I was in Arkansas and a pastor of a pretty good, large church asked me to meet with his son who at seventeen believes he’s an atheist and smarter than everybody. He was raised in the church and doesn’t want to go to college and work. This teenager very angrily dripping with vitriol and sarcasm, looked at me. He said, “I will never trade my time for money.”

I said, “I believe that. I truly believe that you will not trade your time for money. I also truly believe that any employer who’s got a thimble full of discernment wouldn’t offer you a job for money.” Here’s the thing. We’ve got these millions of Millennials, Gen Z, and younger, but not all. There are some that are wonderful and have a vision for life and they want to accomplish something.

We’ve witnessed 120-hour undergrad programs be shaved down to 85 to 96 hours. 100-hour to 96-hour Master’s Degrees are now 30 hours and everything has been dumbed down and truncated. It’s responsibility-lite and we’re seeing part of our loss of God has translated into a loss of work ethic in the sense that I’m supposed to become something for my creator. It’s very sad. One of my favorite historians and sociologists, twice Pulitzer Nominated Rodney Stark down at Baylor said America was built on “the iron Protestant work ethic.” We’re losing that because we’ve lost the family and a lot of other things as well.

We’re living in the world of the participation trophy and I’m due an income. Whether it’s the insanity of reparations, $5 million reparations in San Francisco, and BLM activists say, “That’s not enough.” The government owes me $5 million because I exist. It’s insanity. If there’s anything more puzzling than why would America be at this point now, it’s puzzling why are there not tens of millions of voices shouting, “Enough, it stops here?” It’s crazy.

Alex, what can be done to inspire youth to become engaged with politics in a biblically responsible way?

The starting point is to help youth understand the reality of the Christian faith but also the wonderful, glorious reality, which we still have an opportunity to save and that’s the reality of the United States of America. Terri, it is a tragedy that so many youths and even adults have never grown up in an America that was at her best, an America that was praised and affirmed. We talk to youth in our viral truth clubs and in our conferences that we do, number one, about the Lord and having a relationship with the true and living God.

We talk about the fact that you do live in a country where you can be poor and in a few short years, you can be a business owner and be wealthy if you’re willing to work hard, live right, say your prayers, and not quit. Kids resonate with it. Even though kids have spent their entire lives steeped in this echo chamber of liberalism, they’re not stupid. They seem to intuitively know there’s a part of the story they’ve not been told. We tell them that part of the story. It’s about God and country and the opportunity that lies before them.

I know that you host The Viral Truth Campus Clubs, which is such an amazing thing. Can you tell us a little bit more about that and the conference that you do that brings youth and leaders together from all over the country once a year?

We start clubs and we provide kids with talking points. You would appreciate this, Terri. It’s like leadership development and I’m so excited for all that you’re doing. As you have time, I want to get you plugged into our conference tour and clubs but the Viral Truth Clubs are for middle school and high schoolers. I’ll put it this way. We’re trying to woke-proof America’s kids. We teach them about biblical worldview but we teach them about America and about what it means to be a citizen, the stuff that we used to learn in school and church but don’t anymore.

We empower young people to lead clubs. We say these Rs. They’re Real, Relevant, Respectful, and Relational. We say, “Your lives are influenced incrementally. You make friends, model truth, speak the truth, and show that we have reasons why we believe what we believe,” and little by little, a youth at a time, lives are being changed. One brick at a time, the foundations of our country are being restored.

That’s amazing. We’ve got the 2024 presidential elections coming up. When you look at the numbers of what we spent, which was over $16 billion on the election cycle in 2022, it was the most expensive cycle on record, and 2024 is expected to be even higher. We’ve created a new growth industry in this country and the cost of running for office keeps getting higher.

I’m curious, as Christians, we need to be more engaged, running for office, and participating in those processes, and even if we’re not called to run ourselves, we need to help those who are called. What are your thoughts about political spending and Christians getting more involved in not only running for office but also supporting those who are called to run?

Terri, what’s so interesting is you’ve got the people that seem most passionately invested in elections are the people that don’t believe in God, moral truth, the sacredness of life, and traditional family. You look at people like George Soros or Bill Gates or any of the liberal overlords that love to use their billions of dollars to influence this country, to build some utopia that they envision because everybody has a God.

Even the people that don’t believe in the true and living God, have a God, these utopian police state that they envisioned building. C.S. Lewis many decades ago said, “The worst despot is the person who’s enforcing their worldview for your own good.” It’s like the woke world wants us to be woke because we’ll get enlightened if we’re suddenly believing that toddlers need to sit under the tutelage of drag queens.


Even the people that don’t believe in the true and living God, they have a God.


We’ll someday see the socialist liberal light if we will be okay with gender mutilation for children and all these things. Here’s my point. For a lot of decades, some of the greatest corporations and the most prosperous people have been people of faith because they prayed, worked hard, engaged in deferred gratification, stayed out of debt, were willing to save their money, live within their means, and had the capital to build businesses and corporations that became quite prosperous.

I’ve met a lot of believers that have what I call the anointing for businesses and businesses anointing from God and the anointing of giving. Christians, hands down, are the most philanthropic group but it looks like the pie is shrinking and the reigns of great wealth, at least in many circles, seem to be going away from the hands of Christian conservatives and into the hands of liberals.

We get to the election cycles that you mentioned and we know that politicians can buy votes. We know that politicians that have the vision for this woke utopia get on ballots. Think about this, Terri. Chicago, months ago, was fortunate enough to extricate itself from a woke train wreck of a mayor, Lori Lightfoot. I was in the front lobby of O’Hare Airport months ago. It’s like a homeless encampment and there’s no point of order. Flyers have to get around the panhandlers in the lobby, people sleeping on the floor, and the stench of BO and human waste, and Lori Lightfoot would do nothing about it.

People like myself have a choice. We know we’re not going to fly through Chicago. What do they do? They get rid of Lori Lightfoot and they get a mayor who is at least as woke and they say probably more socialist than Lori Lightfoot. It is cultural suicide and then there’s the other matter in the 2024 presidential election, irrespective of who the candidates might be. Here’s the question that every freedom-loving American ought to ask, “How do we know we’re going to have honestly tabulated elections?”

We are in a place where the Christian patriot’s absence has created this opportunity for people of ill will to step into the position of leadership and encourage civic engagement. Whenever I say something like this, pastors email me, as I’m sure they probably will in the aftermath of this program. They’ll say, “Alex, we’re called to populate heaven, not earth. We’re to build the city of God, not the city of man. Government is some human tower of Babel and I don’t sully myself with the dirty business of politics.”


Today, the Christian patriot’s absence has created this opportunity for people of ill will to step into the position of leadership and encourage civic engagement.


Fair enough but how are we going to serve God when Christianity is illegal? How are we going to serve God when we’re not in a pulpit to influence people but we’re locked in some jail cell? I’ll say this. This is why Christians need to be involved. You can do evangelism anywhere. Chained to the wall of a cell, you can talk to your cellmate about Jesus but you can only do missions in a context of liberty, stability, and prosperity. Do you see what I’m saying?

Part of the reason that for two centuries America has been the great engine driving the great commission is that we had prosperity, liberty, and stability. Those things are being lost. Pacifist, unengaged pastor, you can witness to your cellmate in a Gulag concentration camp but you’re not going to do missions and you’re certainly not going to have your membership at the golf club, as so many now do. It’s time to get in the fight and save our nation, Terri.

You led into my next question for you, which is, as a pastor yourself, Alex, what would you say to pastors who have shied away from politics, who have basically almost discouraged Christians from being involved in the mountain of government in the past? Why do they need to change their thinking and how can they do that?

Many pastors have gone through schools, even religious schools, and denominational schools that are woke. They’ve never been taught the sacred calling of civic engagement. If you look at our nation’s history, the American Revolution happened because of the pastors in Colonial America. I’m sure you’ve probably heard of what they call the Black-Robed Regiment. They were pastors who motivated their congregants to be involved and the shot heard around the world at Lexington were men coming out of a sanctuary.

The Brits fired on congregants coming out of the church because the churches were the place where pastors were conscripting men to get into the Continental Army. The country was birthed to a large degree at the hands of activist clergy. A lot of pastors now have never heard this. They’ve never heard that civic engagement is a sacred calling and you, the pastor, lead by example. You’re engaged, you’re informed, and you vote.

Apprise your people of the issues. Let’s use our megaphones to try and save America while we still have an opportunity. Let’s forget that I only do the right thing if it’s safe. Jesus leaves his church here to be vocal and visible. Terri, I don’t want to ruffle any feathers. The time to play it safe and to quietly lurk back in the shadows as a believer and, “I’ll just live and die and go to heaven one day,” is not what Christians are called to do.

It’s an occupational hazard of being in the service of truth but we’re supposed to speak bold, life-changing truth. Some people are going to like it and some people aren’t. They’ll say, “If you raise your flag up, some are going to salute it. Others are going to throw rocks at it.” I want to meet my Lord, as 1 John 2:28 says, “Meet the Lord unashamed.” There are going to be a lot of pastors sheepishly embarrassed because they could have made a difference but they wouldn’t.

This is no time for the fuzzy Jesus bunny Christianity. We’re to be bold, be vocal, make a difference, and stir up the forces of darkness in anger. Satan doesn’t have to bother so many pastors because those pastors are not bothering the forces of darkness. I want to be an enemy of darkness and therefore, a champion of truth. There are a lot of people that are finally getting that vision as well.

The mountain of government is one that Christians have shied away from and yet the thing is, if we’re not the ones running for office, if we’re not the ones serving in government, somebody else will be. It may be someone that we don’t align with, that doesn’t share our values, that is not the person that we want in those types of positions. We have to get involved. This is the time. It’s more critical than ever in many ways with where we find ourselves in the country. Alex, as we wrap up here, what is one final thing that you’d like to say to our readers or thought that you’d like to leave with them?

There is hope but the window of opportunity is not unlimited. There is hope but we’ve got to get involved. The other thing and I hope you and I can maybe in another show converse about this. The thing that nobody is talking about, that everybody should talk about is natural law. When Jefferson wrote, “We owe these truths to be self-evident,” that’s natural law.


There is hope, but the window of opportunity is not unlimited. There is hope, but we need to get involved.


What I would say to the woke left is the greatest worldview or presupposition that would give freedom and true justice for the largest amount of people is natural law. There is a right and a wrong. Everybody knows it. You can be free to work and achieve anything you want to achieve but your entitlements and rights end where my natural law rights begin. It’s what C.S. Lewis talked about in his book, The Abolition of Man, that we all know right from wrong.

Anyway, I call it the most important topic nobody is talking about. Natural law implies natural rights, not artificial rights. We’ve got to help those running for office and understand that what our nation was built on is not rights, big spending, and the redistribution of wealth but the idea that there is a self-evident truth and there are these natural rights. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness are not artificial rights.

RIF 3 | Christian Politics
Christian Politics: Natural law implies natural rights, not artificial rights. Our nation was not built on rights, big spending, and the redistribution of wealth but the idea that there is a self-evident truth and there are these natural rights. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are not artificial rights.


Let me make it practical. We need people that will run for office who understand that the epistemic foundation of our country is natural law and the rights of free speech, rights of conscience, the rights of parents, property ownership, and the right to keep what you earn. We’ve turned into this incredibly dark, statist machine because we’ve deviated from the thing that held us in check for 245 years and that was natural law. Maybe we can talk about that in-depth on another program.

Alex, where can our readers find you if they want to learn more about what you’re doing?

God bless you. A couple of places. For one thing, our radio show is on, American Family Radio. We’re live, Exploring the Word, 4:00 to 5:00 Eastern, Monday through Friday. It’s heard all around the world. We have a live five-night-a-week God and government show called Truth and Liberty. is that great show. We have amazing guests. I need to get you on at some point, then Truth for a New Generation with Alex McFarland is heard on the American Family Radio Network, Salem Radio, and NRB Television. You can go to my own website, which is

Thanks so much, Alex, for being on the Running into the Fire, and thanks to our readers for tuning in. I look forward to seeing you again soon.

Thank you. God bless you.


Important Links


About Alex McFarland

RIF 3 | Christian PoliticsAlex is a Christian apologist, author, evangelist, religion and culture analyst, and advocate for biblical truth. He has preached in over 2,200 churches throughout North America and numerous more internationally.

He is the leader of Alex McFarland Ministries (, and a noted Youth, culture and religion expert. He is also the creator of Viral Truth Clubs, and has authored or co-authored more than 20 books, including “THE ASSAULT ON AMERICA: How to Defend our Nation Before It’s Too Late,” and co-author of “100 Bible Questions and Answers: Inspiring Truths, Historical Facts, Practical Insights”

He directs Biblical Worldview and teaches in the School of Practical Government for KARIS Bible College, located in Woodland Park, CO.McFarland currently co-hosts Exploring the Word on the American Family Radio Network, airing daily on nearly 200 radio stations across the U.S. He is also the host of the Alex McFarland Show, which airs weekly on NRB TV.